A Conversation with Tomás of the Knights Templar

 K: I feel like you can be persistent.

T: (grins and tilts his chin) Being persistent is part of the job.

K: Ah. Okay then.

T: (gestures to himself and places a hand on his chest) I feel I must introduce myself properly because I have not and it is generally rude to whisper in one’s ear only a name.

K: That’s okay. You’re talking with someone that’s grown used to the whispers in the ear.

T: Regardless of that, I insist.

K: Okay.

T: Hello, Kimberly. My name is Tomás. I will only go by my first name at this time because that is all you have said you need when speaking with us.

K: Yes. I don’t need anything else than that. Just a first name.

T: (bows while seated in the chair) It is my pleasure to meet you.

K: It’s very lovely to meet you.

T: And I have been told that a talk between you and someone of…like me, was important. I believe it has something to do with the concept of past lives.

K: I don’t believe I was a knight of the Knights Templar.

T: No. But you know someone that was.

K: Yes. I was given that information a couple of weeks ago and honestly, from everything that I’ve been learning about myself, I’m not surprised.

T: And so, because of this, I offered to come and speak to you.

K: That’s good but I hesitate because I don’t know a lot about this time in history or this organization.

T: This is probably for the best because I am only a small part of that time. My answers to your questions will be…not from your research but what I am aware of that is true from what I lived, what I experienced which I believe is the point of these talks.

K: Yes. It is. No assumption on my part is for the best or assumptions from information out there.

T: And I understand why there is a need to familiarize oneself with a person before they speak so there is a general…guideline to questions.

K: Yes. That works best for me.

T: Do you have questions?

K: I have some questions.

T: Good. Then let us begin with your questions.

K: Cool. (gesturing to him) You lived a life as a knight of the Knights Templar which I already said.

T: Yes. I did.

K: There is so much mystery to this order.

T: I think that is because no one really knows. How could they? The information is very much…one sided but it also existed in a time that is historically factual by text but not factual in its reality.

K: Is there truth to the one-sided belief? Those that wrote the texts. Because, honestly, those that could read and write were the “rich” (finger quote) so I’m sure there are biases.

T: Everything is perception and perceptions change with were the mind wonders or imagines what could be. I, myself, would prefer that perception was felt and not thought. That would be better.

K: I agree.

T: What are your questions? I will answer as honestly as I can.

K: Okay. I want to talk about who you were before you became a knight. What was your life like?

T: Ah. Yes. (remembers) It was quiet. It was much like anyone’s life. My mother was from Spain and my father was French. He travelled a lot. He was a merchant. We were very wealthy, but my father was in and out of my life. He had many children.

K: Were your mother and father married?

T: Yes, but my father was not an honest man. He was a kind man. A nice man. A gentle man and, when he needed to be, a hard man. My father loved to love and be loved. He had many relationships. I loved him very much. It was always a joy to see him, but I was upset that he could not be committed to my mother and our life in France. My mother joined him in France when they were first married and we lived there until I was twelve. My father understood my mother’s desire to return to Spain because he was away so often and so we moved to Spain and my father kept two homes. (shows me two fingers and waggles them slightly)

K: Where were you happiest?

T: I was happy in Spain. When I saw Spain for the first time, I truly felt a sense of belonging. My mother’s family was large and I had much company. This is where I learned the art of praying. I was devout. I honored God…Christ. My mother wanted me to be a priest. She felt it would make me happy. But the idea, while it fit me…in my heart, did not fit my soul. I was restless. I was torn between my desire to stay with my mother but, one day, travel with my father. There was a time that I felt I was caught between two extremes. To stay or to go.

K: Ah.

T: I befriended the local priest. I spoke of my dreams to travel. I heard of the crusades and the mystery of Jerusalem. My father, being a merchant, traveled what you know as the Silk Road. He saw adventure there. But my interest was not to follow my father’s footsteps. I was interested in pilgrimage. The two roads converged but they went different directions.

K: So how did you become a knight? Because I read it wasn’t this organization that you could just join. You had to be invited in some way.

T: Yes. I was invited. I did not know that I would be invited. I did not know that the priest was writing numerous letters on my behalf.

K: Then when did you know?

T: I was brought to Barcelona to meet an important man. Men around him called him brother. He asked of my faith. He asked of my ability. I was brought to a group of men and they asked me to disrobe so they could see my body. They handed me an axe and asked me to wield it, and they put me in a room with a cross and said I must pray for three days and tell them what I was told. If I was told.

K: Did you know why this was happening?

T: No. Not entirely. I received notice that they were calling on men of age to join a religious army. They needed men to guard the road to Jerusalem. I knew nothing of the Knights Templar. I simply knew they needed men.

K: Who told you?

T: Father Pérez. He told me about the letters he had written. I was surprised. I wasn’t the only one he wrote about. There were three in my town that Father Pérez thought highly of and knew of their ambitions to serve God but were not capable of the silent life; a priest’s life. The knights of my order were called the soldiers of God that were…deployed on earth. Father Pérez saw three such men worthy of the title. I was one.

K: Wow.

T: It was an honor to be thought of this way. Through all my talks, I thought Father Pérez to only be a confident…someone I could confide in. I didn’t know he saw me in this way and I was touched.

K: What happened when you prayed to the cross for three days?

T: I…(chuckles) I did not hear anything. I received no message, but I felt as if I had come home and that I was among family. A family that was different than blood. It was of spirit. I told this to the brother. He wrote a letter, but I did not know what the letter spoke of. I stayed where I was. My mother came to visit me. She was treated very well. We were told together of where I was invited to go. It was an invitation. I was not obligated to join their cause.

K: Did you mother want you to go?

T: (smiles sadly) No. I was not sure I wanted to go either. It wasn’t until I saw a group of…(thinks) it must have been a hundred men. They came to Barcelona when I was there. The Templar Knights. They were coming for mass before they left for the east. I was fascinated. My mother and I went to this mass and after the prayers, I saw…I couldn’t believe my eyes. I saw this glow about these men. This light that was both dim and bright. It was as if they all had the halos of the Christ. I was confused and the vision was only for a moment and then it was gone. It was my mother that turned to me and said that while she was in prayer, she saw the Virgin Mary who told her to release me because I will come back to her. She told me I must go. My mother said she felt peace in her mind and received strength from the Virgin. I was pure. She told me that I must always look up because if I looked down and away from the horizon, I would be lost. Only if I looked up would I see her again.

K: Wow.

T: We were separated for five years until I saw her again and I was blessed that I was able to see her again. Many of my brothers would never see their families again.

K: Oh yeah. I’m sure. That whole mass murder thing.

T: I escaped that.

K: How?

T: I was from Spain and Spain sympathized with the Knights and there we were safer. They were treated better. I was only a knight for five years. When I saw my mother again, my father had arranged us passage to Morocco, and I lived there until my death.

K: No way!

T: Yes.

K: Did you marry?

T: No. I never married. I carried out my vows until I died.

K: So, you were knighted at the tail end of the whole thing.

T: Yes.

K: Did you see Jerusalem?

T: I did not get that far. My travels only took me so far as Constantinople.

K: Did you feel like you were given a choice about this life, like being a knight, or did you think it was your destiny to do this.

T: It was both. When I was a knight, it was very political and when I was trapped by politics, I felt I did not have a choice. But when I made the decision to accept their invitation…to accept this job…(grins and winks)…my mother speaking with me and giving her blessing felt like destiny.

K: Did they train you very long?

T: Yes. For three months. It was exhausting. It was physically and spiritually taxing. They wanted to break our will. That is another way to say ego…the will.

K: Got it.

T: They wanted to break that to serve God in a way that didn’t make us question why.

K: Sometimes history paints a picture of you…the Knights Templar, being very full of ego and being violent with that ego.

T: Yes. We served God but at the center of all of this, we were an army and we were men. We were made to be angels to the church, but we were men and we were soldiers and we followed the orders of men that received their orders from other men that were the only men that could directly communicate with God. In this game of messenger…meaning can become lost.

K: What part did you try to play? The soldier of war or the protector of people?

T: I played the soldier of war to protect the people. I played both sides. I tried to hold true the light that I saw in the church that morning…the light of the soul of the soldiers and I tried to keep that as a reminder of why I was there.

K: Do you think that Father Pérez knew of that soldier, killer mentality?

T: No. (shakes his head while thinking about my question) I don’t believe until you were a part of the brotherhood that you were aware of the duality within them and which Templar fought for which side. Power…or love.

K: And you saw this divide?

T: Yes. It was obvious. But I never questioned those I saw use hate. I only turned inward to stay on my path and protect those along that path. My path was the initial reason I became a knight…a brother.

K: I feel like there were those that wore the armour and those that the armour wore them.

T: (smiles) A willingness to wear the red cross was Michael to his sword.

K: So, you wore the armour.

T: Yes. And, at the end of my day, I could remove it and still be me.

K: Was it truly a…brotherhood?

T: In all armies, even if it does not always feel like a brotherhood, the mission makes it so. I felt a part of something, but I was always watching and knew, in fact, it was less of a brotherhood and more of slave to power.

K: Wow!!!

T: My devotion was to God. My devotion was to Christ. My devotion was not to politics. That was the oath I took. I respected my vows.

K: Being a knight, did you think that maybe the priesthood was better?

T: I never thought about it. Once I was invited into the Templars, I never thought about the…what if I had become a priest. I knew, early on, the priesthood was not my path.

K: Did all the knights that you knew…abstain from sex? Because they were technically the same thing. Soldier priests.

T: (chuckles) No. They did not. I was not innocent of not feeling romantic love. I found love. I fell in love. Maybe that is why I couldn’t be a priest. The potential of me expressing love in a sexual way was very possible.

K: You fell in love with someone????

T: Oh yes.

I hear the name Petra but not sure if I’m hearing it correctly.

T: Before I left. Before I joined the Templars. I fell in love. So, I knew that I could not be a priest. My love was very conflicting. I was drawn more into my faith which made me feel like I was abandoning the love I felt for her. I didn’t understand that it could be all of it. In my time, it was one or the other.

K: So, ultimately, you joined the Templars?

T: Yes. After my mother spoke and I saw the divine in that church on those men…you have a saying…show me more.

K: We sure do. It’s a new manifestation thing.

T: I prayed for three days in front of a cross and said show me. What is it that I need to see here. And I was shown.

K: It’s super cool how that works.

T: It is.

K: Did you feel closer to God in battle or in prayer?

T: In battle, God was at my back. In prayer, God was at my side. God was never separate from me. God surrounded me and his strength was where it needed to be in any situation I found myself in.

K: That’s super beautiful. Is that what kept you going? Even when you saw the politics and maybe even a little…rumor spreading?

T: I kept my head looking up. Remember, my mother told me.

K: Yes.

T: The horizon kept me going because beyond that horizon, was my mother. She birthed me into this world. God gifted me my soul, but my mother made that happen. She was part of my vow to protect. I kept my head up. Rumors keep low to the ground because they are secrets and secrets are beneath people and that is why they tread lightly over secrets. They do not want to be found out. They want to be kept secretive. I carried truth and so I always looked up.

K: I actually feel the depth of that. What a way to look at that or view that. Thank you, Tomás.

T: (bows his head to me) Thank you for understanding.

K: So, you must know about all the conspiracy and stuff that goes on about the Catholic church.

T: I do. Yes.

K: And it’s said that the Templars had a lot to do with hiding those secrets.

T: We were on a large scale scavenger hunt to find and keep documents that would have the power to destroy the church. That was our mission. The protection…yes. We were protectors but what were we protecting or who?

K: No way!

T: The mission was to obtain truth so that the lie could continue. There were scrolls and documents that detailed Christ, his followers, his relationships…the man that lived below and not above. Those that got in the way, were destroyed lest they arrive to those documents first. It was a race to see who would come out on top. The church of Peter…that Jesus asks to be spread, that is very different than the church that formed from Peter. I had faith. I believed in my church. But I cultivated my own personal relationship to it. I kept my head low while looking up. I did my duty according to the vows that I made.

K: It’s believed that the knights discovered something of importance under the temple in Jerusalem. Can you tell me if that’s true?

T: (nods like he has nothing to hide) It’s true.

K: Can you tell me what it was?

T: The nails of a cross.

K: You’re joking?

T: No. The nails of a cross and the written confession of the soldier that kept them.

K: No way.

T: Yes. It was rumored for many years. Many, many years. They were found.

K: Were there other things that you were searching for?

T: Mostly lost scriptures. Lost testimonials. We knew that there were many testimonials that had powerful information. We were searching for that. We became detectives in our own right.

K: Is a lot of what people believe to be treasures and relics pointing to Jesus more mystery and fanfiction? Or is there truth to those things?

T: For me it was neither. It was all very practical. You obtain what’s lost and you get out. You play a part. I knew of the lost scriptures. I knew of the…I will call it a diary of Mary Magdalene. Her words were powerful which could have the potential to take the power from the powerful, yes?

K: Yes.

T: But the treasure hunt that people of today go on…the pilgrimages that happen so they can walk in our footsteps of the past…that is more for the mystery and the wonder and believing we were what they think we were and absorb that power that we left. People are fascinated with the past and what they don’t know enough about. But there is so much of that. It is everywhere. Most of what was lost, was found. Obviously with the size of the Vaults in your Vatican City.

K: (chuckles) For sure.

T: But what if it wasn’t? Then the mystery continues to breathe us life. The Knights Templar are a mystery because the church is a mystery. If everything was known about the church, the mystery of the Templars would be an ordinary textbook case of soldiers going off to war.

He’s very nonchalant about the whole thing. Like there was no real mystery. It’s what he lived and that’s it. People make it a bigger mystery than what it actually was because of “Christ being involved”. That’s what’s whispered in my ear.

K: In your…I guess I will call it opinion…

T: Yes.

K: Who were the Knights Templar?

T: Soldiers of God. There were levels. The politics were the top of the pyramid. What filtered down to us was the action, but the top of the pyramid was closer to God. The soldiers received messages from God from a third party. The secrecy and the powerplays and everything that was the Templar’s downfall happened at the top. The pyramid crashed down because of the actions taking place at the top and the face of that or what held the top up…was slaughtered.

K: Wow. Yeah. That makes complete sense. It’s like war of any kind. The politics and the powerplays that happen at the top trickled down to mass destruction on the ground. I call it the boots on the ground.

T: We take the orders and we take the outcome of those orders. That is still what happens today.

K: But you were different.

T: I wasn’t so different. I am remorse to admit I still took lives. I still fought for those who were above my abilities to communicate with God, but this is it. That is what they assumed. I took my orders from the top that assumed I was not capable of having my own peace and my own space with God…with Christ. I did. To survive as a knight, I continued to do the Templars’ work, but I balanced it as I said.

K: Do you think there were a lot of knights like you who…you’re showing me a pound of flesh or a pound of feathers.

T: Yes. There were many of us that wanted our soul to be as light as feathers…our good deeds many if there was a chance that we would be killed. My focus was on the women and children…for the lame…for the disabled only because I wanted to look at my mother in her eyes and tell her that my work was good and for purpose. I also wanted to look Christ in the face, and I wanted to see him smile at me.

K: That’s beautiful. Did you judge yourself harshly for those who you killed?

T: Yes. I did. It’s something that…as I speak to you as Tomás, it is still part of my life that I have deep regret for.

K: Even though those connections were all choreographed before you came to live your life.

T: If that was an excuse for every wrongdoing, the world would continue to live in the dark ages. It would give permission for people to do bad and hurtful things because it was claimed as destiny, so it is allowed. These are the types of things…the ways of life that can be changed. People hold too tight to destiny and through destiny allow behaviors that are hurtful.

K: I see your point. For sure. Thank you for that.

T: I continue to feel…remorse for the actions that I did as a robot and not as a human.

K: Did you feel forgiven for those actions you took after you died?

T: I did. A person can feel forgiven from God but even so, self-forgiveness is a continuous work in progress. People go back to live more lives on earth…sometimes to make up for their actions in a previous life. To try again.

K: For sure.

T: I have done that myself. I don’t feel like I have corrected the wrong-doings I have done as a knight, but I have more of an understanding of why.

K: Nice. How do we, as people, avoid feeling like we have to make up for past mistakes or wrongs?

T: If something is remembered and it makes someone wish they could go back into the past to fix it, spend time in solitude and call in your sovereignty…your God, your Christ, your angels…I know this is very personal and so we’ll keep it personal…(winks)

K: Okay.

T: And you sit with it and you speak and you ask for clarity so that you may forgive your actions and ask for that clarity and sorrow and understanding to go to the offended party or parties. Ask for forgiveness and if there are actions that you can do to balance the scales. You will be shown. Nothing can be cancelled or cleared or deleted…not entirely. If the moment or the situation comes back to the mind and causes regret…it is meant for you to sit with this and review it and work on forgiveness for others or yourself in life instead of waiting to do it for death. It is a powerful practice and one that unburdens someone so they can continue to live their life, honorably. With honor, live is lived with more wisdom and love than regret or anger.

K: Amazing. That’s amazing. Thank you. Do you mind if I ask about some of the mysteries. We started on that.

T: Of course.

K: How much more Templar treasure is out there?

T: Are you looking for Jewels and Gold? The old God?

K: What do you mean by “Old God”.

T: Statues of gold. Gold was God of the past. The shiny that people wanted to obtain. Within the word gold is old god. That is why it is known as gold.

K: Get out of here!

T: It is true and yes. There is buried treasure everywhere but not that of the church. The Knights Templar, as I said before, was meant to secure information that could destroy the church. There was much information that was written by those closest to Jesus that was hidden to protect themselves as truth tellers. When they were captured and killed, their scripture’s location was buried or burned with them. A lot has been found. A lot has not been.

K: What are your thoughts on the grail? Because I think that’s something that you were looking for as well. The Templars in general, I mean.

T: There are many versions of the grail, and we were told to look for all of them. But the grail was very protected. No amount of killing could uncover it. I believe it was the girl. And I believe it was the cup. I believe it was the cup that Christ drank from before he died. Not the one that he used as he broke bread with his disciples that last time but the cup that he drank the vinegar from…the last taste of humanity before it was over.

K: I thought that was a rag?

T: (smiles) No. It is not of popular opinion, but the cross was not that high. And he was offered vinegar in a cup. The rumor was that this cup was saved and it is the last piece of earth that Jesus touched while alive and it is said this cup holds magic. It exists. It is still buried but to know where, you must know the precise place that Jesus was crucified and under which cross. That is all I will say.

K: Wow. You believe in this story?

T: Yes. I see it now. Those are the grails, but the grails are personal. It is not one. It is a tree with many branches. The tree being the Christ and the branches are the grails.

K: I think people just want to sustain the mystery of it.

T: Of course. Mysteries are fun. The reason the Templars were killed…one of the reasons is because of desperation…the scales of balance. We became powerful. Very powerful. It made people in powerful positions very nervous and scared and with what little power that remained, they used it to execute.

K: Where were you on that Friday the 13^th?

T: As fate would have it, I was home with my mother. Spain was safer for the Templars, but my mother thought it was wise to flee. My father had ships. We fled to Morocco. I was no longer a knight. I destroyed my uniform and lived out my days far away from anything to do with the order.

K: Did it upset you that they were done? I’m sure many, like you, got away.

T: Yes. Are you asking if it became a secret society?

K: Yes.

T: Yes. The order continues to exist.

K: Wow. The history of this is fascinating to me. The secrecy too.

T: (smiles) I can see why. I understand why. But while living it, there was no secrecy. It was something that you see happening today. One puts the word ancient in front of anything that continues today, and it becomes mystery and conspiracy. Politics and religion have not changed much.

K: I see that. So, if someone today feels called to protect or serve others, what guidance would you give them?

T: (thinks) What is your agenda doing it? Is it for recognition…power or is it for cause. Understand why before you begin because if it is for power, only tragedy can come from it.

K: Yes. I totally see that. I’ve seen what someone who “serves and protects” (finger quote) can do when on a power trip or given permission to be on that power trip. It’s happening everywhere these days.

T: To be a knight…even in your world today, be wary of who you take orders from and why they are giving those orders in the first place. Who do you serve? The top of the pyramid or the bottom where the most good can happen.

K: Yes. Absolutely. What do you think the difference between power and honor is?

T: Ah yes. (smiles and nods) Power is given from the outside world. That is how power is viewed. Honor comes from within. Honor is personal power. Power…in general…is something that is bestowed upon. Honor is soul. Power is ego.

K: Very cool. Yes. I agree. Do you think destiny is real?

T: Hhhmmm…yes. There is destiny but destiny is not chiseled from stone. Destiny is malleable. It is like clay that is never hardened. It is like a river that is created from the water that finds the cracks in the ground and uses that to create a path. Destiny is a co-creation between the person and the divine and in that co-creation, there is union and that union creates a better world. Destiny is not an easy path. It has its hardships, but it also has its ease. Destiny is not one path. It is many and it is a path that is walked when one is always looking up and towards the horizon and never down where getting lost is easy. I would like those that read my message to take my mother’s words to heart. Always look up. Always look toward the horizon because what you do today, takes you closer to that. If you feel lost in your day, you will find yourself always looking down or away…towards distraction. But if you turn your eyes up and look to the horizon, you will find purpose again and your path will be shown to you again. You will be reminded of it.

K: Do you think that there are a lot of people that are distracting themselves?

T: Yes. Many, many people are distracting themselves because they fear truth will be painful. Truth is only painful when you live with regret and that can easily be undone and unwound when you…admit, forgive, and send clarity to all parties. Then, the shame that one bows their head in will lift so they can look up and continue on their highest path as they were before the regret…the shame…the embarrassment kept them looking down.

K: You seem to be very wise.

T: (laughs) I was not always wise. Wisdom comes from living. We learn and we accept and we forgive and we do it again. That is life and life happens everywhere.

K: Did you ever marry? I can’t remember if you did or not.

T: I loved. I never married. I died while living with my brother’s family. The took care of me in my old age. Even though I was not a Templar after I moved, I still took my vows seriously. I did the work that I vowed to do in a different way. I died a knight. That is my greatest accomplishment.

K: I feel your honor in that for sure. So, Tomás, after everything, what is it that you know for sure?

T: Ah…(thinks then smiles) That nothing is for sure.

K: (laughing)

T: Everything is temporary. Everything. Even everything that is buried and will be eventually found…it is temporary. Things are found when their truth is required to contribute to change. People bury time capsules all the time. It’s because on a level that is not quite understood, when they are unearthed, that information is needed to bring change. Nothing is for sure. Everything is temporary and it’s temporary to allow growth, transition…the evolution of humanity. The only thing that is for sure is love and love is an energy and can take all forms. Love is water and water flows and changes. Love is energy…and energy flows and changes and all forms are temporary. Nothing is for sure.

K: So beautiful. That is so beautiful. Thank you. I have really enjoyed having you around.

T: It has been my joy to be around.

K: You were in my dreams last night. I dreamt of us in a place I didn’t recognize. My dreams are taking me to places and people all the time now. I wish I could grasp them and remember them all the time instead of bits and pieces.

T: Once you acknowledge that it’s happening, the pieces will become bigger.

K: I hope so. It’s cool. It’s very validating.

T: I would like to come see you more. If that would be okay?

K: Oh, for sure. Anytime. Thank you for your patience. I tend to get pulled in a lot of directions which gets tiring.

T: I understand. The only thing that matters is that we have been able to sit together now and I am thankful and humbled by our connection these few days. Thank you, Kimberly.

K: Thank you, Tomás. I feel very honored by your presence.

T: As am I. I wish you a good day with beautiful horizons. I am here to look out for you, if you wish.

K: I wish. Thank you.

T: Be well.

He bows to me, turns, and walks away. The back of the stage turns into stone structures and he fades into these ancient buildings. Very cool.